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Kevin Burus & Tatiana

Tatiana and Kevin Burus Conversation

This is a transcript of a telephone conversation between attorney Kevin Burus and Tatiana Lutomski in November 2001. Tatiana at times speaks away from the phone and therefore it is hard to understand what she is saying when she does. Dots mean the person doing the transcript was not able to understand what Tatiana was saying. Three little dots mean only one or two words are missing. An entire line of dots means a sentence or maybe two sentences are missing.

00:01 Gaetane Hello.

Kevin               Hello.

Gaetane           Yes, just one minute.  Good morning.

Kevin               Good morning.

Gaetane           Just one minute, okay?

Kevin               Okay.

Tatiana            ...

Kevin               Tatiana.  Good morning.  How are you doing?

Tatiana            Good.

Kevin               Good.  I got a message from you yesterday.  You were pretty upset.

Tatiana            It happened again.

Kevin               Really? 

Tatiana            Um hmm.

Kevin               Well tell me about it.

01:00 Tatiana   It’s just. I’m just thinking ... what Dad says about Mommy, you know, it’s really sad. I don’t know, it makes me feel badly. Dad thinks ... he says bad things about mom you know ...........     

Kevin               What was that that you said?  That he changes around you, that you change around Mom?  What did you say about Mom?

Tatiana            ....

Kevin               Yeah.  You know, unfortunately, I mean.  Your dad’s very angry.  He’s angry at your mom.  But he won’t be that way forever.  But he is angry at your mom

02:00              and he’s gonna say a lot of things like that.  And he shouldn’t do that.  I mean, he shouldn’t do that but he’s gonna, he’s gonna do it.  And uh, you know, don’t, don’t let that scare you.  Just, you know…

Tatiana            Dad, he lies a lot.  He does that many times.  And he’s lying to win. And we’re telling the truth.

Kevin               I know.  I know.  Yeah, I know.  I know he’s lying.  I know he’s lying.  But try not to worry about this, okay?  It’s not, you know, it’s out of your control.  It’s out of my control.  I can’t control what happens.  I can only try to encourage the outcome.  I can’t control the outcome.  I can’t control what

03:00              happens and who wins.  Unfortunately I can’t do that.  But I can try to help and make sure that, you know, that it turns out the best for you guys.  And I’ll do that, I’m gonna do that.  I promise you that.  But you’ve gotta promise me that you’re not gonna worry about this as much, you and Sebastien, that you don’t worry about it as much as you are.

04:00 Tatiana   ...........  so he can win .... He gets mad still a lot and he yells at me ... He yells. He was trying to work in Sebastien’s folder and I said: “Dad Can we go now?”, he said we would go right now............................  He yells ... He gets mad still a lot ... he yells a lot still but not as much because he wants me to like him more than my mom and stuff...  He comes to my school for lunch time ... and gives me a root beer and stuff like that... so I’d like him more than my mom and stuff. He just got the right job so he can have days off and my mom can’t. He can come to my school whenever he wants to ...

Kevin               Right, right.  Yeah.  Remember, he does love you.  Your dad loves you.  He does.  He cares about you, but he is having a hard time right now.  You know, he’s, he’s very sad because he can’t be with you every day.  And he’s trying to make up for it. 

05:00  Tatiana  I know.  I just look at the way because if he wants me to stay with him, he has to stop yelling.  And so it’s important for me to live with my mom because I feel safer and she doesn’t get mad like he does ... and now it’s my dad because he grabs and yells.

Kevin               Well, let me tell you something, okay.  Let me tell you something.  The chances that you have to live with your mom, that you would have to move to your dad’s are very slim, okay.  Now I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, okay, but it’s very slim that it’s gonna happen that way.  Alright? 

Tatiana            Ummm.

Kevin               Now I don’t want you to tell anybody that.  I don’t want you to tell your dad that, okay.  Don’t tell your mom that, but, and I’m not saying it can’t happen. 

06:00              Okay?  It could happen, but it’s very slim.  Now what could happen is that you could see your dad a little more than you are now, alright?

Tatiana            Ummm.

Kevin               Okay?  So, you know.  I can’t control what’s gonna happen but it’s not gonna do any good to worry about it.  It doesn’t do any good.  Nobody can do anything about it ‘til March.  Okay?

Tatiana            Ummm.

Kevin               You know?  You know, I’m kind of, I don’t know, kind of baffled as to what to say to you to try to help you feel better.

Tatiana            Because my dad he, my mom, the judge said like he, my mom, that my dad has to

07:00              see the kids every Wednesday night and every other weekend.  And he just wants a little more and mom said that if the judge says no then he gets mad, now he wants revenge. 

Kevin               Yeah, unfortunately you’re right.  You’re right about that.  He does want, he’s mad, he’s very mad at your mom.  And, you know, he’s trying to take it out on your mom.  And it’ll go away.  Eventually that’s gonna go away, but for a little while he’s gonna be that way.  Try not to, try not to look at it as he’s a bad dad, cause he really does love you.  Okay?  But he’s having a hard time with this cause he doesn’t wanna be away from you. 

08:00  Tatiana  It’s not my mom’s fault that he doesn’t see the kids a lot.  The judge says no. He says it’s all Mom’s fault. 

Kevin               That’s right.  It’s not your mom’s fault.  You’re exactly right.  And your dad is unreasonable for thinking that, but he does, he thinks that.  But he’ll understand.  Eventually he’s gonna know that, you know, he’s gonna realize that he’s wrong.  He is gonna realize that.  And, you know, deep down inside he might know it already.  I’m sure he knows it, deep down inside he knows that, you know, it’s not her fault. 

Tatiana            Ummm. Do you? Never mind.

Kevin               No.  Go ahead. 

Tatiana            I think I told you this, but he thinks my mom is crazy as the lady, I don’t remember the ..., the lady in the rabbit where she boils it.

Kevin               Oh, you mean, yeah, I know what you’re talking about. What’s the name?  Like Witch Hazel or something, the lady that boiled, oh the lady that boiled the rabbit in, I know

09:00              what you’re talking about.  In the movie, uh, yeah I know who you’re talking about.  In that movies with…

Tatiana            He thinks, like, Dad thinks that the rabbit is the kids.  And the lady is the mom. And that’s not true.

Kevin               We know that’s not true.  We do know that’s not true, okay.  I know that’s not true. 

10:00  Tatiana  And my dad really, he just, if he wants me then he needs to have to ... I don’t know how Mom is not mean and then I don’t know how Dad is so mean. Dad, I don’t like the way he yells and grabs and it hurts.  And I get very, very scared when he yells at me.  I think he’s gonna grab me cause he has before.

Kevin               Sure

Tatiana            ................................................................

Kevin               Well, just remember that your dad, you know, I know that he’s trying to treat you nice sometimes because he’s trying to win you over.  He wants you to live with him.  But just remember he does love you, he’s not, it’s not just because of that.  He does care about you.  And he’s not just trying to get back at your

11:00              mom by getting, by having you live with him.  But I understand that he’s very, very mad at your mother.  And he’s trying to, to some extent yes, he’s trying to get back at her by getting you to live with him.  And he shouldn’t do that.  And you’re right.

Tatiana            my brother ...  I don’t know why but my dad parked his car in the middle of the highway, well not in the middle but the side of the highway, he didn’t do it on the street.  He stopped in the middle of the side of the highway and he actually yelled and twist.  He yelled like he had never done before and he just stopped the car. And he grabbed Sebastien and he made a sore on his arm

12:00              but it wasn’t as bad as the past.  And it was really really sore, really purple.  I thought, I mean, when he parked the car I was scared ...  oh my gosh, here we go again.

Kevin               It wasn’t, where was this on the highway, like what town or where, do you remember where it was?

Tatiana            It goes on the way back to Houston, in Arkansas somewhere I think. 

Kevin               Were there a lot of cars going by.

Tatiana            I thinks so.  Medium.

Kevin               Do you remember anything else about it?  Was, I mean, did he get out on the grass or did he step out on the side of the road where, like, they have tires and stuff on the side of the road.

13:00  Tatiana  Yeah, he stopped, well actually on the highway there’s, yeah he stopped and ummm ... Sebastien had to wait there for like say 5 minutes. I mean I just won’t forget about that.  I’ll tell anybody that over and over.

Kevin               So you guys had to go turn around, like you went forward and then you turned around, your dad turned the car around and went back?

Tatiana            No, we were on the way back to Houston and we were ...

Kevin               Right.  Oh, okay.  So he didn’t like leave, he didn’t drive away.  He stayed right there, but Sebastien still had to get out of the car.

Tatiana            Well he was in the car he was like telling Sebastien, “I’m driving the car.”  I

14:00              mean I thought he was leaving, too, cause I mean that’s possible ............................................................ I believed him when he said that.

Kevin               He was gonna drive away, yeah.  He said he was gonna drive away, right?

Tatiana            Um hmm.

Kevin               Yeah, I believe he would do it.  I agree.  I believe he would do it.  Are you worried about going with him for Thanksgiving?

Tatiana            Yeah, ...  When are you coming down with my dad?

Kevin               Well, I left a message with your dad last night to call me and to arrange a time

15:00              that I can come and see y’all with your dad.  So it’ll probably be, it’ll probably be like tonight or tomorrow or maybe Sunday.

Tatiana            Oh.

Kevin               I have to go to a wedding tomorrow so I’m not gonna be in Houston tomorrow.  But Sunday I’ll probably, Sunday would probably be the time when I come and see y’all. 

Tatiana            Okay.

Kevin               Cause tomorrow, I mean I need to talk to your dad and make sure, and tell him tomorrow, but if for some reason I don’t see you guys this weekend, I will see you another weekend when you’re with your dad for sure.  But I told your dad that, you know, I did wanna try to see you this weekend, and…  What I do want you to do is I want you to, I want you to write me.  I know you wrote me a letter that you were gonna fax to me, and you can go ahead and fax that to me.  And I want you to write, you know, to maybe write a letter, you know,

16:00              every week or two and tell me how you feel and what’s going on.  And of course I will not show anybody these letters.  In fact I’m gonna read the letter and then I’m gonna tear it up and destroy it so that there’s no way that anybody can see it.

Tatiana            Okay.

Kevin               But, you know, I told your mom that and I also, I talked to Ms. Peterson…

Tatiana            Patterson.

Kevin               Uh huh, I talked to her.  And, you know, I told her that I was not gonna tell anybody anything you told me.  And I talked to her about you and she’s a very nice lady.  She had a lot of good things to say about you.

Tatiana            Did you see Barbara Hopkins also or did you just see Ms. Patterson?

Kevin               I did.  I saw Ms. Chase Hopkins.  I sure did.

Tatiana            Okay.  I just wanted to know.  .... be confused with Ms. Patterson and Ms.

17:00              Hopkins.  Does Ms. Patterson know what I want?

Kevin               I don’t know.  If you told her that she told me.  Yeah, if you told her that.

Tatiana            Yeah, yeah.  I think I did.  I want to make sure that cause…  Did she say that I want to live with my mom or did she just talk about thing?

Kevin               I don’t think she actually told me that.  But I didn’t ask her.  I don’t think I really asked her that.  I was asking her other things and we were talking about you, and I don’t remember if I, cause I’ve asked you that myself.  And I know what you’re, I mean, I know what the answer to that is.  I’ve already asked you that several times.  I’ve asked Sebastien that, too.  And if Chloe could tell me I would ask her as well. 

18:00  Tatiana  I’m just so scared he’s gonna win because of his lies and we’re gonna loose because we’re telling the truth.

Kevin               Tatiana, we will know if he’s lying.  He’s not gonna be able to lie and get away with it.  That I promise you.  He’s not gonna lie and get away with it.  It’s not gonna happen that way. You know.  I mean, I can’t tell you that he won’t, I can’t tell you for sure, positively, that he won’t win cause I don’t know, cause I’m not making the decision.  But it’s imperative that you tell the truth.  I mean, completely.  You’ve got to tell the truth.  Because, you know, cause there’s a lot of people that know when you’re lying.  If you do lie they’ll know that you’re lying, like they know your dad will lie.  And it’s not

19:00              just me, it’s other people.   So, you just, you can’t worry that much about it.

Tatiana            My dad thinks my mom hurts me, but he really does.

Kevin               I know your mom doesn’t hurt you.  I never did think your mom hurt you.  I know that.  I mean, the question is, the question is, the question is whether your dad is gonna hurt you, okay.  That’s the question.  And, you know, that’s not gonna make him win.  If he doesn’t hurt you that’s not gonna make, cause it’s determined that your dad doesn’t hurt you, okay.  That’s not gonna make him win.  Alright?  That’s not, it’s not gonna make him win at all.  Alright?  So, he's not gonna win just because we think that he’s not gonna hurt you. 

20:00              But on the same hand, he might deserve to see you a little bit more.  Okay?  He might deserve to see you a little bit more than he does.  That’s, you know, that’s kind of important.

Tatiana            If I see him more than I do now, I do not want to see him on every weekend because, I mean, it’s not safe for my mom.

Kevin               Yeah, you need a weekend, you need weekends to yourself, to stay at home.  We understand that.  Yeah, that’s definitely, you’re right, you’re right.  And that won’t happen either.  I mean that’s, you know, you definitely need weekends to yourself at your own house to do your own things, without your dad being there or calling you. 

Tatiana            And I don’t want like every week to go with him because I have to

21:00              spend the mornings on school days and that would be horrible and ... happen and all that. I don’t mind like if I see, if I see like on Tuesday nights 6 to 8 and that’s all.  I mean I wouldn’t mind seeing him a little bit more but I don’t want to see him that much.

Kevin               Right.  That’s understandable.  I know you don’t, I know you don’t wanna spend that much time with him cause I know he talks bad about your mom and I know he does things that bother you and he yells at you.  But that will go away.  He’s not gonna talk about your mom like that for the rest, you know, forever.  I don’t that doesn’t help but I understand.

22:00  Tatiana  Um hmm.  I have to finish up my homework because I have to go to bed at 8:30…

Kevin               Okay.

Tatiana            I didn’t have time to do it.

Kevin               Okay, I’ll let you go.  But when you get a chance, maybe today when you get home from school, later on tonight or sometime tonight, you can fax me that letter.  I gave your mom the phone number, the fax is on that card that I gave you.  And if you want you can fax that letter.  And tell Sebastien that if he wants to call me, if he wants to talk to me that I’ll call him tonight.  If he leaves a message I’ll call him tonight at a certain time.  Tell him when I can call him and I’ll call him during that time if he wants to talk to me.

Tatiana            Ummm.

Kevin               Alright?  You feel better?

Tatiana            Ummm.

23:00  Kevin    Good.  Okay, call me if you have anything else.

Tatiana            Okay.

Kevin               Alright.  Have a good day.

Tatiana            Bye.

Kevin               Bye.

23:05              End of conversation.  Recording keeps going for 6.2 more minutes (until 29:25), which I had to listen to to make sure there was nothing else you wanted transcribed.  So I will charge you half of the remaining time (3 minutes) for a total of 26 minutes.

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